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Union-forex Inc - union-forex. Vodafone will wohl bei - finanzen. What about the South Seas company? Whose speculative profits built the corn exchanges that you find in towns all over the country? Brokers and profiteers have always driven markets - it's just that they can only get so far out of touch with the fundamentals before the tide goes out and they are wrecked on the rocks. Same will happen to short-selling hedge funds, in time, if it gets too out of hand.

The idea of going short naked strikes me as a similar sort of nightmare horror as waking up to find I was streaking though Waitrose - not a pretty prospect nor a wise thing to do. The suggestion that my questions sounded like a public relations ploy put me out a little. As a piece of personal disclosure I admit that I teach public relations but such an underhand approach is not something I would ever recommend and I am sure my students would never consider doing anything so unethical.

Public relations professionals are too easily a whipping boy or scapegoat for the misdeeds of others in what is sadly so often a corrupt society and with perhaps the odd very few exceptions public relations professionals are honourable men and women. To 24 Leonard26 For the avoidance of doubt, my comments in 8 about the story relates to Robert's blog, not your original question. I don't see the problem with short selling the banks provided it's not of the naked kind.

Naked short selling misleads the market just as much AAA bonds made up of subprime mortgages. It's all based on sentiment rather than economic facts. The hedge funds think there's more downside to banks share price, whereas if it is pensions funds lending out the shares they still make money from loaning.

It's speculation arguably adding liquidity to the markets. The gamble is if banks maintain their dividends which the hedge funds have to those they've borrowed from. As a long term private investor, it means I can buy banks shares at a level which I think is below their long term value. As always I read your comment with some interest and although I don't necessarily agree with some of what you have to say. Firstly let me say that I for one cannot condone the practice whereby people can sell something they don't own.

It is not acceptable elsewher so why should it be right in the city. If the people managing the Hedge Funds wish to sell short then they should be obiliged to buy the goods beforehand otherwise, if not the system can be too easily abused.

Secondly I do not accept your comment RP that people who short sell make a useful contribution to the process of setting fair prices for tradable securities and commodities. As we know the people working in the city are either riding on the crest of the wave or down in the trough, for them there appears to be no in between. That makes them an easy prey to unscrupulous hedge fund managers and such like who know how to play both ends against the middle in order to get what they want.

Particularly when the hedge fund managers know they can do this almost risk free. To say RP the short term selling specialist Kynikos managed to identify that the company Enron was grotesquely over valued only higlights the fact that the auditor's who are sometimes also grotesquely over payed and over valued were less than competent in identifying what was going on at Enron. What we need from the people who are running our banks and businesses is a greater level of competence, less spin and more honesty and integrity.

Likewise we need to ensure that auditors are far more diligent and show a greater apitite for honesty and integrity when it comes to reporting the way in which many companies value their businesses and services. Finally keep your reports coming they seem to stimulate a good deal of interest and plenty of banter. I do find it difficult to justify short selling. My problem is that there are other methods by which a fund can protect itself. For example is it not possible to buy put or call options.

Or Write put or call options. It is the options market which is there to enable funds to protect themselves. As for underwriters there is a problem insomuch that they may expect the shares to be fully taken up and as a result they underwrite more shares than they can afford. This leads to a problem because they may well have to sell assets to raise the money to pay the calls.

From my experience this actually happened back in the late eighties with BP when the Kuwaities had to bale out the government by taking up a majority of the shares. Does my memory let me down or is there somebody still alive who remembers those heady days. I have learnt a lot today about short selling. However, the conversation has left me perplexed. Distinguishing between a concert party and a fan club leaves me confused and I have a similar problem with short selling.

Is it always possible to distinguish a naked short from a bear raider? Could short selling lead to a rash of takeovers that will surface in the real economy as longer dole queues and consequent defaults on mortgage payments? I work in engineering and our typical product cycle time, cradle to grave, is over 15 years. In our industry we are plagued with short termism and constantly have to suffer the consequences of decisions made by senior managers who have long since moved on.

It seems to me that all this short selling, especially if pension funds are cutting their own throats by lending shares to be shorted, is sacrificing long term stability for short term gain. Those making the short term gain are not those who will suffer in the long term and it seems that someone will have to control them. The whole system seems to stink - the "light touch" regulation which has been encouraged of successive governments is a joke.

It is claimed that free markets are the panacea to economic success. What about those who are disadvantaged by the effects of these markets, as more and more people are, and what about those who are able to manipulate the markets. Someone above mentioned the South Sea bubble, whilever there is ignorance, greed and dishonesty all markets will be rigged against those with little knowledge.

The real tradgedy of the Bradford and Bingley situation is that the management got paid huge bonusses and the consultants huge fees to set up a sitation where some whiz kids can make massive profits out of taking our money from us. Thank you to Grouchmonkey post 23 for attempting to explain his take on our history. The people who did build the Corn exchanges, railways, companies such as ICI, Glaxo, and Lever Brothers and those in the even more distant past where true entrepreneurs.

Yes, finance was raised by shares, and provided by brokers but people lost their shirts on the success or failure of the venture. Not by gamblers who have no concern whatsoever about the success or failure of the business they gamble on. Although I would agree with grouchmonkey that once the gamblers have wrecked the British Business culture, things will sort themselves out!

Indeed, Robert, you could put an effective end to short-selling by stopping stock lending. But if you did that market liquidity would dry up and shares would head down for far longer and far further than if the status quo were left unchanged. Remember that shorts have to repurchase the shares they've sold short. They can and often do get it wrong - and are forced to cover at much higher prices, at a loss.

There is an interesting study in the US, by Professor Owen Lamont, which shows that the companies complaining most vociferously about short sellers are typically those that have most to hide. It's called shooting the messenger. The negative views of shorts are a vital antidote to the chronically bullish and often misleading spin published by companies' directors, their legions of PR agents, and government ministers, all of whom have a vested interest in painting things in a rosier light than is deserved.

Those with a few minutes to spare might care to look up on Google the public statements from the managers of Enron and Worldcom in - or of Northern Rock and Bradford and Bingley in the months before their problems surfaced. I'm sure that if I tried to sell something I didn't own I would be committing an illegal act - so why can these people get away with doing this sort of thing?.

The big problem is one of Trust. When Trust is abused and breached both by Companies and Market Makers shortsellers , the result is a loss of trust. Without Trust the Equity market will eventually fail, and the Credit markets will remain a joke.

People won't Invest in Shares. People won't buy into Pension Schemes. People will tell their Children they cannot trust Institutions. The Children will grow up with less respect for Property of others because the Financiers have set a clear example of how it is okay to STEAL And as has been seen already, some of those Children will have no respect for Human Life either.

Everything in this World is interconnected, from the Big Banks and Companies, the Pensioners and the Unemployed, and the kids on the street corner who see no future for themselves in this country. So to restore some Trust and some confidence the Stock Exchange Members should under take to cease any Sharp Practice's. That practice belittle's and undermines the image of Share investment, and image is everything these days.

And who except Gamblers Anonymous will take them seriously then? Nice try, but you are - as others have said - shooting the messenger. Lending shares for fixed income is a normal tool in the fund managers tool box - it helps them optimise the risk profile of their portfolio. What you are suggesting - that fund managers stop doing this to prevent price falls - is effectively the same as saying "they" should hoard shares in an attempt to control the price.

This is unrealistic, as it would require wide-spread collusion amongst fund managers - and we all know how cartels end up - someone breaks out and sells the shares for the inflated price. Also don't forget that - provided you believe the markets expectation of future return, and for all its faults that is the best estimate there is - the fund manager has managed to lock in lower risk future returns in form of fixed income when the expectations were higher, by lending shares when they were more expensive.

If they simply sat on the shares, they would not only suffer the price falls, but also a lower expected return for the period that the shares would have been lent for. As for the morals of short selling, what is the difference between selling shares you don't own as long as you can deliver them , or buying shares for money that you don't own aka. Short selling keeps the market more liquid than it would otherwise be. Even if this trade were stopped, would it not be circumvented by people trading in 'contracts for difference'?

I'm sorry Robert, but this sort of nonsense is the very reason why I have resolved to give no more than I have to to my company's pension scheme. This is dealers playing with the savings of Joe Public, who do not have money to spare for them to mess about with. It is the unpleasant and unacceptable face of capitalism, it is not clever, and does not deserve praise from the likes of you - however balanced your blog report may be.

I am now looking after my money, myself, through ISAs and other cash saving devices. They may not provide the potential returns that share portfolios, property and the like could - but at least I am assured of a return. The sooner the City is reigned in, and the ridiculous "I'm alright Jack" bonus culture is eliminated the better. At that stage it might start working in someone else's interest, other than their own. Robert asks "So should short-selling be restricted or banned?

I suspect not - someone will always find a clever workaround for any barrier put in place when there is serious money to be made. In fact, the financial sector seems to habitually find ways to circumvent safeguards the way in which the credit crunch came about is a great case in point , even if what they actually do is simply rename the problem to avoid the application of certain legislation write downs rather than write offs?

Is there any material difference? Nationalisation vs "temporary public ownership" is another example. Sure, short-selling should be banned but the financial sector is so very big, so very powerful and so utterly driven by greedy short sightedness that, even if it were, banning short-selling would result in it being replaced with something even more profitable for the few and damaging for the rest of us. Firstly, the post by Robert was deceptive. Informed comments on this blog have flattened the idea that short selling should or even could be limited.

Buying and selling are two sides of the same coin, as are buying on margin or short selling. Cry-babies who cry foul will have to leave the casino if they run out of money. Some bankers, as is to be expected, given their limited knowledge and decision making expertise, are doing so already. I agree that Trust is the major business issue.

But I do not think it is a question of morals, but of consistent and reliable behaviour. May I comment on what I think are factual errors in your post. It is ingenuous to believe that a company makes best use of the equity of their shareholders or even tries to, or that a stock exchange lets them trade fairly.

The equity market will not fail as long as you continue to give them your hard-earned money to play with. People will continue to put their money in shares and pension schemes as long as they continue to believe that they are investing their money, instead of realising that they are speculating. Saving happens when you place money in a fixed interest account with a bank up to the 35k guarantee, and above that in government bonds.

Speculation is when you buy property without the intention of living in it, or if you buy shares, or any other thing that could conceivably be described as an asset, in the hope it will increase in price or provide a return. Irrational irresponsibility is when you let someone else speculate with your money, such as a pension fund or mutual fund. Investing is when you use money to finance productive activity of your own, something where you will add value, whether through business entrepreneurship business or technical innovation research.

Rational irresponsibility is when you let someone else either invest your money or use it to finance their own productive activity as described above. Perhaps you could earmark a small percentage of your funds to this type of speculation. People will only tell their children that they cannot trust institutions once they actually realise this truth for themselves. Children forget this advice after a decade or so. Every now and then some people who control some institutions can be relied upon to breach trust in such a spectacular way that it results in an economic depression.

Then many people realise this truth, and it can take decades before it is once again forgotten, as those who experienced it at first hand die off. The financiers you talk about do not generally steal anything but if they do then they go to jail under American law , or are rebuked or subjected to negative remarks for a short time if they live in this country. Yes things are interconnected but I do not think this adds anything to the debate.

You speak of sharp practice of stock exchange members as if you have never watched a football match. Scallywags will be scallywags, and are simply being themselves. As long as the referee knows and enforces the rules, and keeps their eyes open, the match usually does not degenerate. Unfortunately, the regulators and policy-makers are responsible for things coming unstuck, but this is to be expected. The scallywags are cleverer than the regulators, and it is more difficult to predict and control the global financial economy than the weather system on Pluto.

At least the Anglo-Saxon contingent is aware of the need to maintain a relatively free market, even though it sometimes behaves like a free-for-all market. You should not have the right to deprive people of their right to gamble, or speculate. If they want to borrow to buy or borrow to sell, what is it to you? And if foolish people want to give the scallywags their money to gamble with, well, what can I say?

Once again, the regulators are at fault here. At least half of the population in this country is of below average intelligence, no matter that the socialists who run this country try to convince you otherwise. The job of the regulators, policy-makers and politicians is to educate these people about the above truths and not promise them that they can borrow their way to living-the-dream. Anyway, share markets are more like racecourses without a central tote than they are like a casino.

A casino has a house, someone in control. Since the nineties the tipsters have managed to gain the upper hand hedge-funds and the bookies seem to no longer bother to cover their bets bankers , but this, again, is the fault of the regulators. Many of the bookies and most of the tipsters will be out of business sooner than you think. If people who complain about sweatshops actually invested in them, would you care if they got their comeuppance and went bust?

So what about people who became shareholders in banks? Same principle. Perhaps you are actually your own enemy, because it is the money you gave to pension funds which was in turn used to buy bank shares, which has propped up all these scallywags in the first place!

This image of share investment, as you call it, is a myth to make so-called investors seem important to themselves, so they will part with their money. They are actually irrational irresponsible people without the benefit of a financial education.

Rather do real work than speculate, if you feel so strongly. It is you, with respect, who is taking the stock market too seriously. If you and a hundred million like you stopped taking the share markets seriously, stopped throwing your money away in order to feel important, then bubbles would not be so harmful. If you have spare money, and are not willing or able to occupy yourself in entrepreneurial or innovative activity, then save it for goodness sake!

Perhaps Mr Peston could ask the friendly fund managers who pockets the fees for stock lending. I recall a conversation with a group who told me they made more money from stock lending than they did from the management fees on thier funds, which may hint at why most managers aren't too concerned at the practice.

I am not sure why my original comment 17 has been referred to a moderator. But let's try again. I am Chief Executive of the International Securities Lending Association, which represents participants in the securities lending market: beneficial owners, their agents and borrowers.

I agree with Robert Peston that short sellers make a helpful contribution to setting fair prices in an open and efficient market. If short selling caused the price of their shares to fall below fair value, other investors would quickly take the opportunity to buy. I fail to see how a 'dangerous short selling feedback loop' can be created or how short selling can be a one-way bet.

Rather it sounds like short sellers are being made scapegoats again. It is also important to understand that only a small percentage of lent securities are used to cover directional short sales. Securities are also borrowed for many other reasons: for example, to avoid settlement fails, by market makers in order to provide liquidity to buyers, and to enable arbitrage-related activity: for example, to go short individual shares versus an index-based basket.

Pension funds and other investors lend shares in order to earn additional returns at low risk. If they decide not to lend they miss out on that return, to the detriment of their investors. It is not clear that the underlying share price would be affected one way or the other. But one certain consequence of reduced securities lending would be to lower market liquidity.

Particularly at present, that is the last thing that any investors should want. The only reason for the current financial fiasco, is not irresponsible borrowing, but hugely irresponsible lending, driven by lender's greed. If lenders had been as cautious and responsible in the past as they are being now, then the mess wouldn't have happened in the first place. How about this for a revolutionary idea that might just ensure that there is never a repeat of the present debacle we are all suffering from at the moment.

If the only place Banks and lenders could borrow money from here was the Bank of England, then there would be no need for LIBOR the main reason for the problem. Banks would then have to justify why and for what reason, they wanted the money in the first place and would need to satisfy the BOE they they were worthy of the loan just like we have to and would only get it if the BOE was satisfied and secure. The BOE would then be able to properly monitor the behaviour of these lenders and could ensure that they never over extended themselves, or borrowed beyond their means, the same conditions they expect from us.

Wonder if it could catch on??????????? Re comment 45 I read with some interest what you had to say about all the advantages of participating in the securities market in particular short selling without disclosing any of the disadvantages. That I suspect is because you, as an insider, will have the information to know when to sell and trouser the money and get out before the muck hits the fan.

For someone like me the big problem with short selling is the fact that some poor unfortunate sucker who is not on the inside, will end up picking up the tab after all the big porkers have had their share. That person will invariably end up worse off. End of Days This time the banks will have to be allowed to sink. Moral hazard There is nothing wrong about trading on margin until it becomes massive speculastion. Examples are Hunt's attempt to corner the silver market, current oil price speculation, current bank speculation and the UK pound speculation in the early s.

You can't fight the weight of geared up funds - unless you change the gearing rules. Hunt was stopped by merely requiring an increase in margin payments. He didn't have the cash, had to close his positions and the silver price dropped to normal levels. Why don't our regulators act? Well when various countries need to act together is the problem.

Hence you have self created finacial problems, burma, zimbawe etc. I hope you dont feel I am wandering too far off the subject, but I have a serious problem with the rights issue of RBS. I cannot understand how the directors, and in particular the auditors could say that the accounts fairly reflected the true situation at RBS on the 28 Feb.

These assets were not acquired after the end of , nor can their value have changed so abruptly and by such a large amount in such a short time. Any selling off of RBS was therefore completely justified on the grounds that neither the directors nor the auditors had signed off accounts which had any relationship to the real state of the Company. Any short selling is therefore not the important issue in relationship to the price collapse, but the fact that the Directors AND the auditors had not given the shareholders the true facts.

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Soccer betting odds vegas I cannot understand how the directors, and in particular the auditors could say that the accounts fairly reflected the true situation at RBS on the 28 Feb. Forex4you - InvertirEnBolsaWeb. UK economy hit by record slump in but double-dip recession avoided. Singapore markets closed. The Independent. Informed comments on this blog have flattened the idea that short selling should or even could be limited.
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Borgata sports betting app It might be if it correctly predicts the future but, if not, its nothing more than a great buying opportunity. Installation is easy and simple using a Windows installer. Go figure the logic. Yahoo Movies UK. Investors remain cautiously optimistic about prospects for a new round of government aid as the economic recovery seemingly stalls. Take it from someone who was a permanent bear for years.
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This article was originally posted on FX Empire. A proposed tax on media advertising in Poland is unacceptable in its current form, a spokeswoman for a junior partner in the government said on Friday, raising doubt over whether parliament could pass a bill critics say threatens media independence. The objections of Accord, a centrist partner in the conservative United Right coalition, is the latest sign of tension in a government that has become increasingly fractious in recent months, with conflicts breaking out over issues ranging from animal rights to the European Union budget.

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Singapore markets closed. Straits Times Index 2, Nikkei 29, Hang Seng 30, Naked short selling misleads the market just as much AAA bonds made up of subprime mortgages. It's all based on sentiment rather than economic facts. The hedge funds think there's more downside to banks share price, whereas if it is pensions funds lending out the shares they still make money from loaning. It's speculation arguably adding liquidity to the markets.

The gamble is if banks maintain their dividends which the hedge funds have to those they've borrowed from. As a long term private investor, it means I can buy banks shares at a level which I think is below their long term value. As always I read your comment with some interest and although I don't necessarily agree with some of what you have to say.

Firstly let me say that I for one cannot condone the practice whereby people can sell something they don't own. It is not acceptable elsewher so why should it be right in the city. If the people managing the Hedge Funds wish to sell short then they should be obiliged to buy the goods beforehand otherwise, if not the system can be too easily abused. Secondly I do not accept your comment RP that people who short sell make a useful contribution to the process of setting fair prices for tradable securities and commodities.

As we know the people working in the city are either riding on the crest of the wave or down in the trough, for them there appears to be no in between. That makes them an easy prey to unscrupulous hedge fund managers and such like who know how to play both ends against the middle in order to get what they want. Particularly when the hedge fund managers know they can do this almost risk free. To say RP the short term selling specialist Kynikos managed to identify that the company Enron was grotesquely over valued only higlights the fact that the auditor's who are sometimes also grotesquely over payed and over valued were less than competent in identifying what was going on at Enron.

What we need from the people who are running our banks and businesses is a greater level of competence, less spin and more honesty and integrity. Likewise we need to ensure that auditors are far more diligent and show a greater apitite for honesty and integrity when it comes to reporting the way in which many companies value their businesses and services.

Finally keep your reports coming they seem to stimulate a good deal of interest and plenty of banter. I do find it difficult to justify short selling. My problem is that there are other methods by which a fund can protect itself. For example is it not possible to buy put or call options. Or Write put or call options.

It is the options market which is there to enable funds to protect themselves. As for underwriters there is a problem insomuch that they may expect the shares to be fully taken up and as a result they underwrite more shares than they can afford.

This leads to a problem because they may well have to sell assets to raise the money to pay the calls. From my experience this actually happened back in the late eighties with BP when the Kuwaities had to bale out the government by taking up a majority of the shares. Does my memory let me down or is there somebody still alive who remembers those heady days. I have learnt a lot today about short selling. However, the conversation has left me perplexed.

Distinguishing between a concert party and a fan club leaves me confused and I have a similar problem with short selling. Is it always possible to distinguish a naked short from a bear raider? Could short selling lead to a rash of takeovers that will surface in the real economy as longer dole queues and consequent defaults on mortgage payments?

I work in engineering and our typical product cycle time, cradle to grave, is over 15 years. In our industry we are plagued with short termism and constantly have to suffer the consequences of decisions made by senior managers who have long since moved on. It seems to me that all this short selling, especially if pension funds are cutting their own throats by lending shares to be shorted, is sacrificing long term stability for short term gain. Those making the short term gain are not those who will suffer in the long term and it seems that someone will have to control them.

The whole system seems to stink - the "light touch" regulation which has been encouraged of successive governments is a joke. It is claimed that free markets are the panacea to economic success. What about those who are disadvantaged by the effects of these markets, as more and more people are, and what about those who are able to manipulate the markets. Someone above mentioned the South Sea bubble, whilever there is ignorance, greed and dishonesty all markets will be rigged against those with little knowledge.

The real tradgedy of the Bradford and Bingley situation is that the management got paid huge bonusses and the consultants huge fees to set up a sitation where some whiz kids can make massive profits out of taking our money from us. Thank you to Grouchmonkey post 23 for attempting to explain his take on our history.

The people who did build the Corn exchanges, railways, companies such as ICI, Glaxo, and Lever Brothers and those in the even more distant past where true entrepreneurs. Yes, finance was raised by shares, and provided by brokers but people lost their shirts on the success or failure of the venture. Not by gamblers who have no concern whatsoever about the success or failure of the business they gamble on.

Although I would agree with grouchmonkey that once the gamblers have wrecked the British Business culture, things will sort themselves out! Indeed, Robert, you could put an effective end to short-selling by stopping stock lending. But if you did that market liquidity would dry up and shares would head down for far longer and far further than if the status quo were left unchanged. Remember that shorts have to repurchase the shares they've sold short.

They can and often do get it wrong - and are forced to cover at much higher prices, at a loss. There is an interesting study in the US, by Professor Owen Lamont, which shows that the companies complaining most vociferously about short sellers are typically those that have most to hide. It's called shooting the messenger.

The negative views of shorts are a vital antidote to the chronically bullish and often misleading spin published by companies' directors, their legions of PR agents, and government ministers, all of whom have a vested interest in painting things in a rosier light than is deserved.

Those with a few minutes to spare might care to look up on Google the public statements from the managers of Enron and Worldcom in - or of Northern Rock and Bradford and Bingley in the months before their problems surfaced. I'm sure that if I tried to sell something I didn't own I would be committing an illegal act - so why can these people get away with doing this sort of thing?.

The big problem is one of Trust. When Trust is abused and breached both by Companies and Market Makers shortsellers , the result is a loss of trust. Without Trust the Equity market will eventually fail, and the Credit markets will remain a joke. People won't Invest in Shares. People won't buy into Pension Schemes. People will tell their Children they cannot trust Institutions.

The Children will grow up with less respect for Property of others because the Financiers have set a clear example of how it is okay to STEAL And as has been seen already, some of those Children will have no respect for Human Life either. Everything in this World is interconnected, from the Big Banks and Companies, the Pensioners and the Unemployed, and the kids on the street corner who see no future for themselves in this country.

So to restore some Trust and some confidence the Stock Exchange Members should under take to cease any Sharp Practice's. That practice belittle's and undermines the image of Share investment, and image is everything these days.

And who except Gamblers Anonymous will take them seriously then? Nice try, but you are - as others have said - shooting the messenger. Lending shares for fixed income is a normal tool in the fund managers tool box - it helps them optimise the risk profile of their portfolio. What you are suggesting - that fund managers stop doing this to prevent price falls - is effectively the same as saying "they" should hoard shares in an attempt to control the price.

This is unrealistic, as it would require wide-spread collusion amongst fund managers - and we all know how cartels end up - someone breaks out and sells the shares for the inflated price. Also don't forget that - provided you believe the markets expectation of future return, and for all its faults that is the best estimate there is - the fund manager has managed to lock in lower risk future returns in form of fixed income when the expectations were higher, by lending shares when they were more expensive.

If they simply sat on the shares, they would not only suffer the price falls, but also a lower expected return for the period that the shares would have been lent for. As for the morals of short selling, what is the difference between selling shares you don't own as long as you can deliver them , or buying shares for money that you don't own aka. Short selling keeps the market more liquid than it would otherwise be. Even if this trade were stopped, would it not be circumvented by people trading in 'contracts for difference'?

I'm sorry Robert, but this sort of nonsense is the very reason why I have resolved to give no more than I have to to my company's pension scheme. This is dealers playing with the savings of Joe Public, who do not have money to spare for them to mess about with. It is the unpleasant and unacceptable face of capitalism, it is not clever, and does not deserve praise from the likes of you - however balanced your blog report may be. I am now looking after my money, myself, through ISAs and other cash saving devices.

They may not provide the potential returns that share portfolios, property and the like could - but at least I am assured of a return. The sooner the City is reigned in, and the ridiculous "I'm alright Jack" bonus culture is eliminated the better. At that stage it might start working in someone else's interest, other than their own. Robert asks "So should short-selling be restricted or banned?

I suspect not - someone will always find a clever workaround for any barrier put in place when there is serious money to be made. In fact, the financial sector seems to habitually find ways to circumvent safeguards the way in which the credit crunch came about is a great case in point , even if what they actually do is simply rename the problem to avoid the application of certain legislation write downs rather than write offs?

Is there any material difference? Nationalisation vs "temporary public ownership" is another example. Sure, short-selling should be banned but the financial sector is so very big, so very powerful and so utterly driven by greedy short sightedness that, even if it were, banning short-selling would result in it being replaced with something even more profitable for the few and damaging for the rest of us. Firstly, the post by Robert was deceptive.

Informed comments on this blog have flattened the idea that short selling should or even could be limited. Buying and selling are two sides of the same coin, as are buying on margin or short selling. Cry-babies who cry foul will have to leave the casino if they run out of money. Some bankers, as is to be expected, given their limited knowledge and decision making expertise, are doing so already. I agree that Trust is the major business issue.

But I do not think it is a question of morals, but of consistent and reliable behaviour. May I comment on what I think are factual errors in your post. It is ingenuous to believe that a company makes best use of the equity of their shareholders or even tries to, or that a stock exchange lets them trade fairly. The equity market will not fail as long as you continue to give them your hard-earned money to play with.

People will continue to put their money in shares and pension schemes as long as they continue to believe that they are investing their money, instead of realising that they are speculating. Saving happens when you place money in a fixed interest account with a bank up to the 35k guarantee, and above that in government bonds. Speculation is when you buy property without the intention of living in it, or if you buy shares, or any other thing that could conceivably be described as an asset, in the hope it will increase in price or provide a return.

Irrational irresponsibility is when you let someone else speculate with your money, such as a pension fund or mutual fund. Investing is when you use money to finance productive activity of your own, something where you will add value, whether through business entrepreneurship business or technical innovation research.

Rational irresponsibility is when you let someone else either invest your money or use it to finance their own productive activity as described above. Perhaps you could earmark a small percentage of your funds to this type of speculation.

People will only tell their children that they cannot trust institutions once they actually realise this truth for themselves. Children forget this advice after a decade or so. Every now and then some people who control some institutions can be relied upon to breach trust in such a spectacular way that it results in an economic depression. Then many people realise this truth, and it can take decades before it is once again forgotten, as those who experienced it at first hand die off.

The financiers you talk about do not generally steal anything but if they do then they go to jail under American law , or are rebuked or subjected to negative remarks for a short time if they live in this country. Yes things are interconnected but I do not think this adds anything to the debate.

You speak of sharp practice of stock exchange members as if you have never watched a football match. Scallywags will be scallywags, and are simply being themselves. As long as the referee knows and enforces the rules, and keeps their eyes open, the match usually does not degenerate. Unfortunately, the regulators and policy-makers are responsible for things coming unstuck, but this is to be expected.

The scallywags are cleverer than the regulators, and it is more difficult to predict and control the global financial economy than the weather system on Pluto. At least the Anglo-Saxon contingent is aware of the need to maintain a relatively free market, even though it sometimes behaves like a free-for-all market. You should not have the right to deprive people of their right to gamble, or speculate. If they want to borrow to buy or borrow to sell, what is it to you?

And if foolish people want to give the scallywags their money to gamble with, well, what can I say? Once again, the regulators are at fault here. At least half of the population in this country is of below average intelligence, no matter that the socialists who run this country try to convince you otherwise. The job of the regulators, policy-makers and politicians is to educate these people about the above truths and not promise them that they can borrow their way to living-the-dream.

Anyway, share markets are more like racecourses without a central tote than they are like a casino. A casino has a house, someone in control. Since the nineties the tipsters have managed to gain the upper hand hedge-funds and the bookies seem to no longer bother to cover their bets bankers , but this, again, is the fault of the regulators. Many of the bookies and most of the tipsters will be out of business sooner than you think.

If people who complain about sweatshops actually invested in them, would you care if they got their comeuppance and went bust? So what about people who became shareholders in banks? Same principle. Perhaps you are actually your own enemy, because it is the money you gave to pension funds which was in turn used to buy bank shares, which has propped up all these scallywags in the first place! This image of share investment, as you call it, is a myth to make so-called investors seem important to themselves, so they will part with their money.

They are actually irrational irresponsible people without the benefit of a financial education. Rather do real work than speculate, if you feel so strongly. It is you, with respect, who is taking the stock market too seriously. If you and a hundred million like you stopped taking the share markets seriously, stopped throwing your money away in order to feel important, then bubbles would not be so harmful.

If you have spare money, and are not willing or able to occupy yourself in entrepreneurial or innovative activity, then save it for goodness sake! Perhaps Mr Peston could ask the friendly fund managers who pockets the fees for stock lending. I recall a conversation with a group who told me they made more money from stock lending than they did from the management fees on thier funds, which may hint at why most managers aren't too concerned at the practice.

I am not sure why my original comment 17 has been referred to a moderator. But let's try again. I am Chief Executive of the International Securities Lending Association, which represents participants in the securities lending market: beneficial owners, their agents and borrowers. I agree with Robert Peston that short sellers make a helpful contribution to setting fair prices in an open and efficient market. If short selling caused the price of their shares to fall below fair value, other investors would quickly take the opportunity to buy.

I fail to see how a 'dangerous short selling feedback loop' can be created or how short selling can be a one-way bet. Rather it sounds like short sellers are being made scapegoats again. It is also important to understand that only a small percentage of lent securities are used to cover directional short sales.

Securities are also borrowed for many other reasons: for example, to avoid settlement fails, by market makers in order to provide liquidity to buyers, and to enable arbitrage-related activity: for example, to go short individual shares versus an index-based basket.

Pension funds and other investors lend shares in order to earn additional returns at low risk. If they decide not to lend they miss out on that return, to the detriment of their investors. It is not clear that the underlying share price would be affected one way or the other. But one certain consequence of reduced securities lending would be to lower market liquidity. Particularly at present, that is the last thing that any investors should want.

The only reason for the current financial fiasco, is not irresponsible borrowing, but hugely irresponsible lending, driven by lender's greed. If lenders had been as cautious and responsible in the past as they are being now, then the mess wouldn't have happened in the first place. How about this for a revolutionary idea that might just ensure that there is never a repeat of the present debacle we are all suffering from at the moment.

If the only place Banks and lenders could borrow money from here was the Bank of England, then there would be no need for LIBOR the main reason for the problem. Banks would then have to justify why and for what reason, they wanted the money in the first place and would need to satisfy the BOE they they were worthy of the loan just like we have to and would only get it if the BOE was satisfied and secure.

The BOE would then be able to properly monitor the behaviour of these lenders and could ensure that they never over extended themselves, or borrowed beyond their means, the same conditions they expect from us. Wonder if it could catch on??????????? Re comment 45 I read with some interest what you had to say about all the advantages of participating in the securities market in particular short selling without disclosing any of the disadvantages.

That I suspect is because you, as an insider, will have the information to know when to sell and trouser the money and get out before the muck hits the fan. For someone like me the big problem with short selling is the fact that some poor unfortunate sucker who is not on the inside, will end up picking up the tab after all the big porkers have had their share.

That person will invariably end up worse off. End of Days This time the banks will have to be allowed to sink. Moral hazard There is nothing wrong about trading on margin until it becomes massive speculastion. Examples are Hunt's attempt to corner the silver market, current oil price speculation, current bank speculation and the UK pound speculation in the early s. You can't fight the weight of geared up funds - unless you change the gearing rules.

Hunt was stopped by merely requiring an increase in margin payments. He didn't have the cash, had to close his positions and the silver price dropped to normal levels. Why don't our regulators act? Well when various countries need to act together is the problem. Hence you have self created finacial problems, burma, zimbawe etc. I hope you dont feel I am wandering too far off the subject, but I have a serious problem with the rights issue of RBS.

I cannot understand how the directors, and in particular the auditors could say that the accounts fairly reflected the true situation at RBS on the 28 Feb. These assets were not acquired after the end of , nor can their value have changed so abruptly and by such a large amount in such a short time.

Any selling off of RBS was therefore completely justified on the grounds that neither the directors nor the auditors had signed off accounts which had any relationship to the real state of the Company. Any short selling is therefore not the important issue in relationship to the price collapse, but the fact that the Directors AND the auditors had not given the shareholders the true facts.

This entry is now closed for comments. For the latest updates across BBC blogs, visit the Blogs homepage. How scary would be a cartoon version of me explaining how banks work? Click here to find out and also to see other short films I've made on the nature of money and why some people are paid so much more than you. The Entrepreneur's Wound: The traumatic childhoods of successful business people. Download a PDF [37Kb] with my thoughts on how the global crisis occurred and what the re-made economy will look like.

Nick Robinson: "Britain is standing by to give more money to the IMF so that it can, in turn, lend more money Douglas Fraser: "With a mighty thud, the Ledger has been slammed shut. Thanks for reading it. But it's not finished - far

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